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Debate: Guns
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Rickster View Drop Down
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Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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Posts: 27 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rickster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Debate: Guns
    Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by OriginalFluMom

Colorado has a "Make My Day Law".  If someone breaks into your home you can shoot them and I will!  I would carry in plain sight if in the mountains...mountain lions and bears have attacked people.  But to carry in plain sight in my local 7/11 not a good idea unless we are in an emergency situation and I am threatened with bad times.
 
When you ban the purchase of guns then only the bad guys will have guns!  Just the way it is.
 
LOL @ "Make my Day Law"
 
Your last sentence is exactly what is happening here.
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Mahshadin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MsInformation

Should we all be allowed to get our cup of coffee at Starbucks while toting a gun for all to see as long as we apply for a license to carry a gun? 
____________________________________________________________________ 
 
l totally believe in the right to own a weapon, I have several myself from hand guns, shotguns, to rifles (Avid Hunter). Does that mean This should be an absolute in all cases or circumstances (NO).
 
Ill give you a personal experience, first I live in a state that has probably one of the most extreme views on gun ownership, and where you can have them.
 
About 4 months ago I was at the local gas station filling up my Tahoe on a saturday night when a truck with 4 early 20's aged males rolled up for gas. 2 of the 4 were obviously drunk and they got out of their truck and started waving hand guns around. One accidently fires off a round, which fortinetrly went off into the air and didnt strike anything or anyone. The group feels remorse and quickly puts the guns away and off they go. They were not thugs or criminals and I know atleast one must live in the area because I had seen him before around the neighborhood. And although this incident ended peacefully it could have went drastically in a different direction with the accidental firing of the weapon, and probably would have ended the future of the one who accidently fired the weapon. (ITS NOT LIKE YOU CAN TAKE IT BACK)
 
It all boils down to Responsability and how do we gage responsability in purchasing and packing a weapon 24/7. Pretty tough to do  (CUNUNDRUM)
 
The problem I think is when we discuss these ideas as absolutes verses common sense restrictions. I would not support any ban on ownership, but I think it is a different subject when discussing Where & When.
 
Just my thoughts
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I have a right to carry my pistol because the US constitution gives me that right. If my state was a open carry state, then yes I would open carry into Starbucks or any other place that I am allowed to. If someone else doesn't like it then too bad. I am exercising my constitutional right.
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Posts: 112 		Post Options Post Options   Quote lilotra1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2010 at 8:15pm
Advocates carry handguns, rifles at Va. rally
Apr 19 12:41 PM US/Eastern
By MATTHEW BARAKAT and NAFEESA SYEED
Associated Press Writers

ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) - Dozens of Second Amendment rights activists holstered their handguns and slung unloaded rifles over their shoulders Monday at a gun rights rally in northern Virginia, while hundreds of like-minded but unarmed counterparts converged in the nation's capital.

The gun-toting protesters in Virginia were within the bounds of the law but promised to keep the weapons unloaded. Those in Washington, D.C., chose not to carry any firearms in compliance with the district's strict gun laws, even though many believe the rules are unconstitutional.

Signs reading "Which part of 'shall not be infringed' confuses you?" and bright orange stickers saying "Guns save lives" dotted the crowd at the Washington Monument. Across the Potomac River in Alexandria, former Alabama Minutemen leader Mike Vanderboegh told the crowd armed confrontation should be reserved only for instances of the government threatening people's lives.

However, he said it might be justified if people face arrest for refusing to buy insurance under the health care reform package recently passed by Congress.

"If I know I'm not going to get a fair trial in federal court ... I at least have the right to an unfair gunfight," Vanderboegh said.

As the group made its way from a staging area to Gravelly Point Park, gun control advocate Martina Leinz dismissed Vanderboegh as a bully.

"If they wanted to have dialogue, they don't need to bring a big weapon with them," she said of the protesters.

Organizers said it's the first armed rally in a national park since a law passed allowing people to carry firearms in national parks.

Ken Garvin of Newville, Pa., said he came because believes the government is overreaching. He stressed that the people attending the rally "are not a bunch of crazed thugs ... they're just people."

In Washington, meanwhile, speakers urged the crowd to vote in this year's elections for candidates who will support gun rights. Among the supporters was James Everett, 71, a gun owner from Battle Creek, Mich., who said he came to the rally on a bus with nearly 40 others. He echoed the speakers' message, saying he wants lawmakers to stop infringing on his right to bear arms.

___

Syeed reported from Washington, D.C.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9F68FB80&show_article=1


We need to use our rights or we will loose them. These people and the other people legally carrying guns to their local Starbucks are only using their rights and IMO should be applauded. By the way, has anyone heard of any violent acts at these protests?
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Mahshadin View Drop Down
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Posts: 25 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2010 at 4:31pm
How Bout The Work Place?
 
How bout a Football Game in Detroit (Lions vs the Green Bay Packers) a Century old Rivalry? 
 
Its on USA Soil thus covered by the Constitution
 
Its a Black or White Subject (Right)
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MsInformation View Drop Down
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Posts: 175 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MsInformation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 6:32am
You know, I get kind of tired of constantly hearing people say, "it's my constitutional right.."
 
We live in a country, now populated by 300,000,000 people.  The constitution was a foundation laid out to help us build upon.  The foundation of a home does not include windows and doors. 
 
What I'm trying to say is don't use "it's my constitutional right.."   or "our founding fathers.." as excuses.  Come up with some better excuses because those are far outdated. 
 
When our founding fathers drew up the constitution, there were not 300,000,000 people.   They could not even begin to perceive a society with that many people and the responsibilities that come with it.  Health care reform, maybe changing some gun laws, etc... it's just part of our evolutionary change. 
 
My view is not popular here, I know, but let's face it, we're living in 2010 and we have an overpopulated country, and hello.... that's all the more reason to restrict gun ownership to hunting and protecting your property.  Leave policing up to the police.  I don't want a god-fearing gun-toting christian going out and getting trigger happy all of a sudden.
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MsInformation

I'm glad to hear we agree that "the constitution was a foundation...to...build upon." And when I say "build upon" I don't mean "change. I mean add too with 2/3 of the states agreeing by vote. I have to admit I didn't really understand the windows and doors thing (but IMO if foundations had them they could be useful for additional air flow, escape routes, etc.) :)

I don't use "it's my constitutional right" or "our founding fathers" as an excuse. Generally, when I use them I use them as a truth or fact. For example fact: Our Founding Fathers didn't custom build the constitution for a particular age, population or economy but they gave us a framework for gov't that considered human nature. Or fact: It's my constitutional right to keep and bear arms but with all rights come responsibilities. These are truths or facts and they do not change. They are immovable.

I am curious, when you give examples of evolutionary change, ie HC reform, changing gun laws, are you admitting that these laws are unconstitutional and are made to surpass the constitution? This country wasn't founded on the idea of evolutionary change. It was founded on the idea that all people have inalienable rights given by God and that these rights must not be abridged.

I am getting tired of people always trying to change or dismiss the constitution. The only arguments seem to be it's old and outdated or the Founding Fathers didn't know how much the world would change. I have to agree with the latter. They didn't, but as I said before, that is one of the beauty's of the constitution. The Founding Father's did understand the human condition and our frailties and gave us a gov't that considered these.

And why are you attacking Christians? It's offensive.

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Posts: 175 		Post Options Post Options   Quote MsInformation Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 12:45pm
First of all, I apologize for coming off as so harsh.  I forgot where I was posting. lol :)
 
As we evolve as a nation, the constitution is going to change whether we like it or not just like the bible changes.  Oh sure it stays the same (maybe), but for example we don't wear robes anymore and we don't throw stones anymore.  Our food now comes in cans and boxes.  This is evolution.  As time goes on, other things change.  For example, years ago, certain religions didn't beileve in going to the movies.  Now those particular religions have loosened their beliefs.  The theory behind not going to the movies was that if you went to movies (and dances), you would be participating in worldly behavior.  Someone said, "hey, we're taking this worldly thing just a little to far.  Let's relax a little bit."  So they changed.
 
People's behavior changes over the years and they "change the meaning of the bible" to fit the lifestyle they want to live. 
 
That's sort of how the constitution is.  It doesn't actually change, but it does, and for good reason too.  In order to go forward, we have to change.  Thus we have 300,000,000+ people.  We currently have 45,000 people per year who die due to lack of health care (no insurance).  If you have been following medical trends, you will realize that if we are not proactive and we don't do something about health care now, it will be devasatating 5, 10, 15 or 20 years from now.  You thought the recesssion was bad.   If we keep put off reforming health care, the devastation caused by people having no insurance or health care will be, by far worse, and by far more costly than this current recession.   We can't afford to wait and be reactive.  We have to be proactive.
 
Almost the same for guns.  When you have a country with 300,000,000+ people in it, and growing, eventually you are going to have to tighten up gun laws.  The more people you have, the more difficult it is to manage the population, thus more police will be needed and less people with guns on the streets, including legal gun-toters. 
 
The above is evolution.  It's inevitible.  It's unavoidable.   We have to change, and people may not like it and they may throw a temper tantrum, but change is necessary, and you can't wait around for ever or you have things like the housing crash (no one did anything about it until it was too late). 
 
People need to put on their thinking caps.  Good day.  :)
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Posts: 77 		Post Options Post Options   Quote OriginalFluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 9:38pm
Evolution = When you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns. 
 
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