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Debate: Is this Intolerance? |
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MsInformation
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Topic: Debate: Is this Intolerance?Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 8:43am |
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Do the actions in the following article breed intolerance and hate towards others by non-acceptance or is it something the church school should be doing because it's part of their belief? Argument: The church is teaching God's love, but in this case isn't it showing intolerance which leads to hatred? Isn't this, in a sense what "some" of the muslims are doing -- being intolerant to "the great satan" of the west?
Groups protest decision not to re-enroll child of lesbiansMarch 8, 2010 9:01 p.m. EST CNN) -- Gay and lesbian groups are attacking a decision by the archdiocese of Denver, Colorado, not to re-enroll a child in a Catholic school in Boulder, Colorado, next year because the child's parents are lesbians. The issue centers on the Sacred Heart of Jesus School, where the pre-schooler is currently enrolled. "The Archdiocese of Denver has acted very unjustly in singling out this child for exclusion," said DignityUSA Executive Director Marianne Duddy-Burke in a written statement Monday. "Until every student's parents are tested on Catholic teaching, this action by Catholic officials cannot be understood as anything other than discrimination on the back of a child. At a tender age, this child has learned that Catholic officials are willing to inflict pain on children and families." The decision was made public last week. "These actions by the Denver Archdiocese harm the student by taking the child away from friends, teachers and community," said Jarrett Barrios, president of the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. "It's deeply troubling to see any school remove a child from their educational program simply as the means of rejecting that child's parents." But the archdiocese defended its decision. ![]() "Parents living in open discord with Catholic teaching in areas of faith and morals unfortunately choose by their actions to disqualify their children from enrollment," it said in a statement posted on its Web site. "To allow children in these circumstances to continue in our school would be a cause of confusion for the student in that what they are being taught in school conflicts with what they experience in the home. "We communicated the policy to the couple at Sacred Heart of Jesus Catholic School as soon as we realized the situation. We discussed the reasons with them and have sought to respond in a way that does not abruptly displace the student but at the same time respects the integrity of the Catholic school's philosophy." In a posting of his sermon, the Rev. Bill Breslin, pastor of Sacred Heart of Jesus Church, supported the move. "The issue is not about our not accepting 'sinners,' " he said. "It is not about punishing the child for the sins of his or her parents. It is simply that the lesbian couple is saying that their relationship is a good one that should be accepted by everyone; and the Church cannot agree to that." About 30 opponents of the move -- "mostly hetero allies of the gay community" -- protested Sunday outside the church during Mass, said Dave Ensign, board president of Boulder Pride, a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community center and services organization. Ensign handed out flyers to the protesters and then joined the parishioners as they listened to the sermon defending the church's move. "I was disappointed, but it was pretty much what I was expecting to hear," he said. He added that the larger community's reaction has been positive, saying, "When people hear about this, they speak up, and I think that says a lot about our community." The child has not been identified publicly. No one at the archdiocese or at the school immediately returned calls Monday seeking comment. http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/08/colorado.lesbians.church/index.html?hpt=T2 |
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MsInformation
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Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 8:52am |
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I want to post my opinion, but I want to see others as I'm curious as to what some of you think.
Churches and church schools can do whatever they choose as far as beliefs. That is their right in the US; however, I've seen firsthand that certain aspects of religion breed intolerance and hatred. They preach love and preach not to judge, yet they are the first in line to judge and show nonacceptance of others. I think it just makes us look hypocritical to the world when we push an agenda of acceptance and tolerance, but don't seem to practice what we preach - tolerance. You see, in my opinion, live would be so much peaceful, if we could accept those for who they are and get on with our life and quit worrying about others. If you are a christian, your light is supposed to shine and lead people to church. You don't need to preach or have an attitude of inacceptance toward others. |
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lilotra1
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Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 10:40am |
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Denver Catholic school: Lesbian couple’s child may not re-enroll March 08, 2010
A preschooler at a Catholic school in the Archdiocese of Denver will not be permitted to re-enroll next year because the child is being raised by two lesbians. “Parents living in open discord with Catholic teaching in areas of faith and morals unfortunately choose by their actions to disqualify their children from enrollment,” the archdiocese said in a statement. “To allow children in these circumstances to continue in our school would be a cause of confusion for the student in that what they are being taught in school conflicts with what they experience in the home.” “If a child of gay parents comes to our school, and we teach that gay marriage is against the will of God, then the child will think that we are saying their parents are bad,” explained Father Bill Breslin, the pastor who oversees the school. “We don't want to put any child in that tough position-- nor do we want to put the parents, or the teachers, at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church. Why would good parents want their children to learn something they don't believe in? It doesn't make sense. There are so many schools in Boulder that see the meaning of sexuality in an entirely different way than the Catholic Church does. Why not send their child there?” http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=5654 I agree with you completely that churches and church schools can and should teach according to their beliefs. Parents who send their child to private schools usually do a lot of research in their decision of where the child will go to school. They will usually choose a school based on several criteria, among those, the education provided and the belief system they are surrounded with. My child goes to a Catholic school and I would be furious if the child of a lesbian couple was allowed to attend. We chose the school my child attends because, among other things, we share the church's and schools beliefs. How is it fair, or right, for someone to come in who clearly doesn't share the schools beliefs and only wants to infringe upon them? I'm sure the lesbian parents were not surprised by the reaction of the Catholic diocese and school. Isn't the Church's belief on homosexuality well known? IMO, the parents used their child, by sending him to a Catholic school, to advance their own agenda. Shame on them. |
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MsInformation
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Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 11:21am |
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I want to throw this into the mix.
Same-sex couples in D.C. say 'I do'March 9, 2010 1:08 p.m. EST Now, you see a priest marrying a couple. You see, in another instance, a catholic school denying the child of a gay couple. You see two female reverands get married in the above article. You see laws in one state saying gay marriage is okay and laws in another state saying it's not okay. Talk about mixed signals and obvious intolerance (which can lead to hatred.) Has anyone even discussed (not to make excuses for anyone) the biological makeup of some "gay people". Has anyone ever stopped to think that someone may be "deformed" in a sense? In another words. We will openly and immediately accept, for example, someone with down's syndrome or severe mental retardedness and defend their actions because they aren't in the right state of mind. It is possible that someone can be born with the outward appearance of one sex but the inward biological chemistry of another sex based on brain wave activity, hormones levels, etc. Should we punish someone for something we don't understand? Maybe they don't feel anything is wrong because to them via biological makeup, they are "natural". Who are we to judge? Just my 2 cents. If someone disagrees, I encourage it. Lolitra, I understand where you are coming from. If the couple did their research, they would realize that the school is not a good "fit" for their child, and they could be possibly using their child to push an agenda which is wrong. I'd like to hear their side of the story though before I come to any conclusions. The child had already been there a year? If so, why did the school even let the child attend in the first place? There are two sides to every story. I'm of the opinion that if we can't embrace people and accept them for who they are, who and what does that make us? If we are christians and living that kind of life, doesn't that make us hypocrites? We may not believe in what they believe in, but it doesn't mean we have to be intolerant of them. Times change. People change. We don't wear robes anymore. It's okay for women to cut their hair. We can go to movies. We can drink. We can dance. We accept our behaviors and added a few for convenience.. so shouldn't we learn to be more tolerant? Okay, I'll give it a rest. It's someone elses turn. Rip me a new one! lol |
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roni3470
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Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 11:56am |
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I think every private school is allowed to have a set of rules and regulations that people must qualify for in order to attend. There may be income regulations for a school that only wants the less fortunate to be able to attend. There may be a rule for test scores saying students have to have specific scores to qualify for that school. It may not seem fair or acceptable to a majority of folks (myself included) but its just the way it is.
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MsInformation
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Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 12:22pm |
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Good point! Maybe the private schools should research the parents thoroughly just as the parents should research the school thoroughly to make sure it's a good fit for all those involved. Maybe they should have a several month "meeting" period in which both parties meet and counsel on what they are looking for in a school and what the school is looking for in a pupil/family involvement -- everyone should be up front.
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lilotra1
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Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 12:56pm |
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This is the Archbishop's column from the Denver Catholic Diocese. It gives a some background.
Catholic schools: Partners in faith with parents Denver news media have reported in recent days on the case of two children of a lesbian couple in Boulder. The couple was informed by Sacred Heart of Jesus parish school that the older child, whom they were enrolling in kindergarten for next year, would be allowed to attend kindergarten but would not be able to continue into first grade the year after. Their younger child would be welcome to finish preschool, but not continue into kindergarten. Many have wondered why. Sacred Heart of Jesus parish has borne the difficult publicity surrounding this issue, but archdiocesan policy was followed faithfully in this matter, and the policy applies to all Archdiocese of Denver schools. Some background is important. Then we’ll turn to the human realities involved. Catholic schools began in this country in the early 19th century. Catholics started them as an alternative to the public schools of the day, which taught a curriculum often hostile to Catholic belief. In many ways times have changed, but the mission of Catholic schools has not. The main purpose of Catholic schools is religious; in other words, to form students in Catholic faith, Catholic morality and Catholic social values. We take great pride in the academic excellence of our schools as well. The reason is simple. A strong, well-rounded academic education helps to create mature citizens who contribute to the wider community. It’s also true that some of our schools exist as a service outreach in largely non-Catholic communities. Many of our schools also accept students of other faiths and no faith, and from single parent and divorced parent families. These students are always welcome so long as their parents support the Catholic mission of the school and do not offer a serious counter-witness to that mission in their actions. Our schools, however, exist primarily to serve Catholic families with an education shaped by Catholic faith and moral formation. This is common sense. Other religious traditions do the same according to their beliefs, and at a heavy sacrifice. We need to remember that Catholic families pay twice for a Catholic education: through their taxes, they fund public education; then they pay again to send their children to a Catholic school. The idea that Catholic schools should require support for Catholic teaching for admission, and a serious effort from school families to live their Catholic identity faithfully, is reasonable and just. That’s the background. Now to the human side of a painful situation. The Church never looks for reasons to turn anyone away from a Catholic education. But the Church can’t change her moral beliefs without undermining her mission and failing to serve the many families who believe in that mission. If Catholics take their faith seriously, they naturally follow the teachings of the Church in matters of faith and morals; otherwise they take themselves outside the believing community. The Church does not claim that people with a homosexual orientation are “bad,” or that their children are less loved by God. Quite the opposite. But what the Church does teach is that sexual intimacy by anyone outside marriage is wrong; that marriage is a sacramental covenant; and that marriage can only occur between a man and a woman. These beliefs are central to a Catholic understanding of human nature, family and happiness, and the organization of society. The Church cannot change these teachings because, in the faith of Catholics, they are the teachings of Jesus Christ. The policies of our Catholic school system exist to protect all parties involved, including the children of homosexual couples and the couples themselves. Our schools are meant to be “partners in faith” with parents. If parents don’t respect the beliefs of the Church, or live in a manner that openly rejects those beliefs, then partnering with those parents becomes very difficult, if not impossible. It also places unfair stress on the children, who find themselves caught in the middle, and on their teachers, who have an obligation to teach the authentic faith of the Church. Most parents who send their children to Catholic schools want an environment where the Catholic faith is fully taught and practiced. That simply can’t be done if teachers need to worry about wounding the feelings of their students or about alienating students from their parents. That isn’t fair to anyone—including the wider school community. Persons who have an understanding of marriage and family life sharply different from Catholic belief are often people of sincerity and good will. They have other, excellent options for education and should see in them the better course for their children. http://www.archden.org/index.cfm/ID/3560 _______________________________________________ This is an excerpt from Fr. Bill Breslin's blog. The core issue for us Catholics on this question is our freedom and our obligation to teach about marriage and family life as our Faith teaches. If parents see the cultural interpretation of what tolerance has become as more important than the teachings of Jesus, then we become unfaithful to the Lord and we lose the meaning of the beatitude, “Blessed are you when they insult you for My sake, for the Kingdom of Heaven is yours.” Many of Jesus’ teachings were not popular. In fact, He was crucified for His teachings. Glossing over differences on essential matters, and pretending that crucial issues are irrelevant, is not tolerance. It is relativism, meaning that nothing is important anymore and everyone can have their own interpretation of what is goodness and truth. This kind of tolerance, which is a decidedly secularist invention, seeks to separate all moral discourse from public life. However, those who embrace this kind of tolerance do not, of course, acknowledge that they are imposing their own moral judgments upon society. http://www.fatherbillsblog.com/ _________________________________________ Well, you encouraged and I won't rip you a new one but here's my 2 cents. :) I've seen studies on both sides of the biological makeup of some "gay people" and I believe although some may have a different biology but for most it is a choice. Even if "gay peoples" biology is different it still comes down to a choice. All of us have certain proclivities but we don't all choose to act on them. Personally, I don't care what happens in others bedrooms. Do what you want, I'll do what I want but, it's like Vegas, what happens in the bedroom should stay in the bedroom. :) It's each individuals choice. I won't force what I do on anyone else and ask the same in return. You make a good point about the child being in school a year, but in my experience, it's not real difficult to get into a Catholic School. Only one parent is interviewed and not extensively. The school probably wasn't aware of the parents sexuality until the end of the year during the second interview. I read this on blog so don't know if it is true but it was said that it was the second interview where both parents were forthcoming about their sexual choice. Why weren't they as forthcoming in the first interview? Did you mean that christians must embrace ALL people and accept them for who they are or be hypocrites? I don't agree with that. I think Fr. Breslin said it best when he wrote this, "Glossing over differences on essential matters, and pretending that crucial issues are irrelevant, is not tolerance. It is relativism, meaning that nothing is important anymore and everyone can have their own interpretation of what is goodness and truth." |
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MsInformation
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Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 1:12pm |
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Reading over that article, I'm wondering if the gay couple had been married would they be more apt to be accepted at the school. I find it odd that it's so easy to get accepted into a private catholic school for most. My sister has one of her kids enrolled in a catholic school and they aren't even catholic, yet if a gay individual has a child, they can't enroll their child. So what's the difference? I think it's just being judgemental to gays because the other parents "don't like it" and have difficulty accepting it, and this in turn makes these people more outcasts. I'm thinking maybe they didn't deliberately mean to use their kids probably - it just happened this way. They probably just wanted a private school for their kids because public schools can be so rampant with bad behavior, drugs, and a poor teacher to student ratio.
I think, in some sense, everyone loses here because catholic schools accept all sorts of families, etc, but not this one. I'll bet the gay couple feels pretty bad as does their kids. And for what? For wanting a private school? What other private school choices were there? It woud be nice to hear the couple's story. It's hard to really say too much without hearing both sides. |
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lilotra1
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Posted: 09 Mar 2010 at 2:48pm |
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I agree, it would be interesting to here the couple's story. The tuition for a half day of kindergarten, not actively catholic affiliated, is $2,875. I, too, feel bad for the child involved, but IMO the parent's should have done more research before placing their child in a school when, clearly, they don't share the same philosophy. Isn't it prudent to research everything about the school you want your child to attend? Why would anyone spend money on something they don't agree with? From one website I found over 70 private schools in the area. Some of them were Catholic but many were not. I'm sure there was a better option for them than a Catholic school.
In your above example, according to Archbishop Chaput, there is no difference "...so long as their parents support the Catholic mission of the school and do not offer a serious counter-witness to that mission in their actions." It is the parents who put their child in an unhealthy situation when they put them into a school and don't support the schools mission. Isn't it the responsibility of the parents not to put their child in a bad situation? Didn't they think they're lesbian relationship might become an issue at any Catholic school their child might attend? Even if they didn't think it would become an issue, when they found out it was, why didn't they just pull their child out of the school? |
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